A Rebuttal to the Commenters of My BandZoogle Interview
I want to first thank Chris from Bandzoogle for approaching me to do an interview for them; anytime I get asked to do an interview I gain a new found confidence in what I preach and teach and it feels good to know that people are paying attention.
It’s taken years of hard work to be able to understand all the different facets of the digital music business (not to mention marketing online in general to back it all up), and every interview I do I get to introduce many musicians and industry professionals my perception of how to get your name out there and get people’s attention.
I loved the interview I did, and many of the Bandzoogle members agreed. I thank them for understanding my point of view – specifically when I discussed giving away their music for free. They understand that building a fanbase (through the acquisition of permission-based email marketing) is perhaps your number one priority when you’re starting out, and that they money you invest in recording an album is also your initial investment in marketing – you’ll trade that album for an email address to entice people to check you out.
Because the BandZoogle blog is currently only open for members to comment (and, while I am not a member, I do see the value in the service they provide for those musicians who maybe aren’t ready to play with the big boys and host their own custom site), I decided to post my responses to their comments here!
@Kelly Pettit
“it’s still a really hard thing to come to grips with. I mean, my newest album which will be out in a month cost over $20,000. “
I think the actual concept of becoming a professional musician in itself is a hard thing to come to grips with. It would be like starting any other kind of business. You’re going to need to invest time and money into something in order to succeed. You invested $20,000 in your album. Do you feel you are deserving of a $100,000 or $1,000,000 profit from that investment?
That’s not a realistic scenario. Instead, that $20,000 investment is the same as maybe starting a hot dog stand, but instead of selling hot dogs you are playing gigs and trying to make enough money to pay the bills. Most of your profit goes right back into the business to keep things going.
Truth is, if you want to actually make a lot of money selling music in CD or Digital format, you gotta create enough hype around it. Expect to pay thousands even hundred of thousands of dollars on various marketing and advertising to generate that buzz. Add touring support money in a similar vein if you want to get a tour up and running. Who realistically has that money and knows what to do with it?
The Labels do, but who’s getting signed to Labels these days? Most are not musicians, most are just celebrity tabloid fodder. If you fit the bill then good for you; if not, then you’re screwed. Unless you create that buzz yourself, and without the money to do that, the only assets you have to make it happen are time and that album you just created. So give it away and see if you can create that serious buzz.
PS I checked out your music; production is good, you can tell it’s a legitimate recording. I’m a Counting Crows fan, and the acoustic/organ combo reminded me of them in “She’s Just Like Summer”. I suggest getting that music player on the front page so they can listen before joining the list. I signed up, thanks!
“I’m a new home builder and I’m gonna give away the 1st 20,000 homes I build for Free”
Let’s get one thing straight: people NEED homes. Shelter is a necessity. Your music is not. Music is something we get emotionally attached to, and when that happens, therein lies it’s value.
Let’s talk about YOUR investment. How much did Gilbert’s album cost to produce? I know it’s not as much as our friend Kelly above paid for his. Why should both of you have to sell the music for the same price, when he obviously paid a lot more to produce it? Or how about a major label act, who might have spent $100,000 to produce music? They charge the same $.99 a track on iTunes.
It’s like walking into a car dealership and BMW, a Ford Fusion, and a Kia Hatchback all for sale for $45,000. What music is the consumer going purchase? More importantly, why do you feel your music is worth as much as those who spend 10 times the amount to produce theirs?
That’s the problem with musicians, you know how much time you’ve put into something and feel that it’s enough to create the value. Guess what – it’s not! That’s why, especially for those who can’t afford to get some serious recording done, that you should consider giving it away, in the hopes that if you ever get the funds and the opportunity to do a really professional recording, you can then have the value in not only the production but also in the fanbase you’ve built that you can actually sell the damn thing too.
“What he says makes perfect sense”
Thanks
“Did Eric give away 20 000 of his $50/month subscription?”
Yes I have given away a ton of Label 2.0 memberships! Why? To GENERATE BUZZ, that’s why. OH PS I’ve been creating that value in my product by blogging FOR FREE for over 3 years, taking the thousands of hours I’ve spent working, researching, and thinking about the Web and this business and sharing it with you, again, for free.
“I’m not a CEO or a guy who wants to help you for a monthly subscription (please find another advice than giving my work away, I might as well just give it up). I’m a musician.”
Exactly, you’re a musician and not a business oriented person. So why are you trying to sell a product if you’re not ready to be a CEO of your music business?
“And here is a free advice: do not put entire tracks on your players but only clips (I edit my clips to show the different parts of my tunes), free softwares are available (for Firefox users) to download ANYTHING in streaming: the tracks off your players, the videos on Youtube, the tracks on Myspace…”
Good luck…
“My ‘giving away’ part = my Youtube Tutorials and my “selling merchandise’part = the Drops I sell to that audience I gained.”
You got it knocks! That’s awesome.
“Sorry to say this but for me Eric is just another marketing expert who wants to take advantage of struggling musicians. Look at his website: he offers his services for $50 a month (not exactly cheap). Where are his freebies?”
Before I continue, I must say I refrain from cursing here as much as I can as I try to be a professional at all times. But it is my blog, so go fuck yourself, seriously.
I have produced content for my blog, while not the most super resourceful blog out there, for years. I even did this interview for free. If you actually looked you would also see, that, whoops, I give away free Label 2.0 training material FOR FREE in exchange for an email. Sound familiar? I also have given presentations at various conferences for…free. So I DO have a free model.
And if you were to actually see what I’m doing with Label 2.0, you’d know that I’m not “taking advantage” of anybody. Our service is an educational and interactive platform that we’ve spent years learning about and month in and month out are working hard putting content together for our members. I’ve had to turn down bands who are “struggling” (which I now view as either lazy, unmotivated, or not serious about being a professional) and couldn’t afford to pay anything to anyone. This service is the affordable option to those without the pockets to hire someone to do various business and marketing actions for them.
“I think the overall internet marketing concept comes down to this: give away your music for free.”
It’s a major part of it, because it allows you to get something in return – an email address, which you can learn how to monetize. Most fail to see the value in the email address – the key in the free model and one of the musician’s only real assets. The email address you get in return for the free music allows you to upsell other product to the fan. If you do not have this product, then you are never going to make it as a musician sorry. THAT’s the business model and that’s how the “free” marketing concept works.
“So my sad bottom line after 12 years personal internet experience: less sales than ever and a lot more businesses who try to make money with us!”
So after 12 years of internet experience, all you have to show for it is a crappy website, 31 Facebook fans, 280 MySpace fans, 3 Twitter followers, and 1 upload on YouTube? I wonder how big that email list is.
“I believe in looking at the big picture. How far am I going to get trying to squeeze a few bucks out of people? How far am I going to get getting my music in the hands of thousands of people instead? I’m going with the 2nd choice.”
THANK YOU some one has a brain and understands this perfectly. Everyone check out his site for free music – nice squeeze page with introduction video and calls to action! I signed up just based on that alone, it’s something we teach in Label 2.0.
“You must first built VALUE to your music… that is what is happening to these artists who are selling gold and platinum records.”
You build value (other than production) through interaction. After the free album, interact with them through content and the live show. Do it long enough and you’ll build that value – it’s a time game. If everyone just did it and did it right from day one, they’d have started building that value instead of whining about how no one wants it.
Unfortunately your missing out on that by trying to sell your single; the production does not warrant it. It’s demo quality, and do you do with demos? You GIVE THEM AWAY in the hopes that someone will like them enough to give you a shot at a better production.
“How is this shit any different than those late night infomercials offering sure-fire ways to make money in real estate? Sure, there are a handful of people who can make the system work and make a fortune – but there’s always the mousetype, “results not typical.” I’d like to know, of all the people who subscribe to this service for $50, what is the average return on investment for this company?
With Bandzoogle, we pay our monthly fee for a clear service with clear value (a great website and associated features/tools and hosting). With Herbert’s company, you get a claim, for $50 a month, that they’ll walk you through this theory. I’d like to know: What’s the OVERALL AVERAGE return on investment for Herbert’s clients?”
OH BOY let the cursing commence!
First, go read my fucking sales page man. Do we PROMISE you ANYTHING? DO we say you’re gonna sell a million records and bang pornstars and trash hotel rooms? IF we do say that somewhere please point it out to me. I’m pretty sure we outline our service pretty clear – to teach you how to set up and market your online music business (PS Were working to make what we offer as clear as possible, so check back soon!)
It’s obvious that you’re gonna have to do some learning and some hard work in order for it to work.
I have a question – what’s the return on investment for the standard college education? Ask those who are still paying their Stafford loans off for their worthless marketing degree. A $50 a month course that teaches you more then you’ll learn on a campus – not a bad deal in my opinion. What’s the return on investment on an education? It’s not something that’s gonna get you rich quick, it’s a process.
And it’s HEBERT asshole. PS Dave gives away a free track, go figure. OH He’s also a self employed copyrighter and internet marketer too! Maybe HE has a product to sell.
“Buyer beware of marketing schemers that want to take advantage of your overwhelming desire to hit the Big Time. There are many factors involved – hard work, connections, etc”
That’s exactly what we teach in Label 2.0 – how to do all the hard work the RIGHT way and how to use this hard work to meet those connections. Buyer beware or relying on your God to bring you success.
@knocks (again)
“Dave..you my friend have written the best thing I have read in awhile…points 1-5 I TOTALLY agree with.
Especially when you wrote “focus on writing and practicing and performing mostly”
That’s why Dave still has a day job. And here I thought you got it! Our job at Label 2.0 is to teach you and help you do all this marketing and list building stuff the right way, so you’re not out there wasting your time learning what we already know or learning though mistakes. You just do it and do it right so you CAN focus on writing and practicing and performing mostly.
“I truly believe the most important thing for an artist to do is forget about being famous. Focus on local respect, work it, get out and gig, make friends, grow your own mailing list, be creative with your mail outs and blogs, be friendly and down to earth, learn from others, be inspirational…it’s all grass roots.”
Agreed and right on the money.
If I’m out to hawk a marketing product just to screw over musicians, I don’t think I would have spent the 4 hours it took to write this rebuttal. I hope all you read this have a new perspective on their music business and will take the right steps to make sure they are prepared to become successful. For all the naysayers, what alternative options do YOU have to build your fanbase and run a successful business?
